Resilience Against All Odds: Joanna's Story

Join us for an inspiring episode as we welcome Joanna Rakowski, the author of the memoir "Chasing the Daylight." Joanna takes us through her extraordinary journey from being a ballerina in Poland to serving as an interrogator in the US Army. We explore her challenges as an immigrant, the profound experiences that shaped her transformation, and the impact these had on her personal life, including her marriage and a meaningful friendship with a professor in Poland. Joanna also shares her insights on the mental and emotional resilience required to adapt to a new country and the strength it took to pursue her dreams in America.

Listen in as Joanna recounts her struggles with language barriers and physical fitness in the military. She opens up about her initial difficulties with English, creating personal dictionaries, and gradually building the confidence to communicate with fellow soldiers. Her journey from barely completing basic exercises to surpassing fitness goals underscores the importance of patience, self-discipline, and trust in the process. Joanna's story highlights the significance of perseverance and the determination to succeed in both intellectual and physical endeavors.

Finally, we discuss the opportunities that came with pursuing the American Dream. Joanna compares the limited freedoms she experienced in Poland with the open and accessible landscape in America, where she was able to establish a marketing consulting firm, obtain a college scholarship, and achieve homeownership. She shares her strategies for mastering English and integrating into American society, including her decision to distance herself from her Polish-speaking community. Joanna's narrative underscores the transformative power of embracing a new language and the personal growth that comes from immersing oneself in a new culture. Don't miss this compelling conversation about personal transformation, resilience, and the pursuit of dreams.

To watch the interview on Youtube click here: https://youtu.be/Aa-xu-Yph94

To order the book and learn more about Joanna click here: https://chasingthedaylight.com/home

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Chapters

• 0:01 From Ballet to Army Joanna Rakowski's journey from ballerina to US Army interrogator, her struggles as an immigrant, and the transformative experiences that shaped her.
• 16:06 Overcoming Challenges in a New Environment Overcoming language barriers and physical fitness challenges in the military through patience, self-discipline, and trust in the process.
• 27:47 Opportunities in Pursuing the American Dream Moving from Poland to America provided opportunities for education, business, and homeownership, highlighting the importance of personal freedoms and democracy.
• 35:53 Immigrant Women Share Language Struggles An immigrant woman shares her journey of mastering English, distancing from her community, and the transformative power of language.

Transcript

0:00:01 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Hello friends, this is Ewelina, Life Coach for Immigrants. I have an interview for you with an author of an incredible immigrant biography, Joanna Rakowski. Michaela Gordoni of Hollywood Book Reviews wrote about this particular book that this is a captivating memoir which provides a unique insight into the life of dainty ballerina, turned army interrogator. The book takes the reader on a journey through Joanna's adult life in Poland, where she trained as a ballerina, and later in the US Army, where she served as an interrogator. Her story is one of grit, determination and self-transformation. Well, it's a great book, my friends. It has received a number of rewards it was grand prize winner in 2023, Chanticleer International Book Awards category, second place winner in the Bookfest 2024 Spring Awards in Memoir Portrait category, winner in 2024 International Impact Book Awards in Military Memoir category and Pacific Book Awards 23 winner in the Best Memoir category and a winner of Pacific Book Awards for 2023 in best memoir category. 

I had a pleasure to interview Joanna and in this conversation we talk about how she dealt with the struggles she encountered here in the US. What was it like making a decision to belong to America in a serious way? What were the benefits of joining the US Army? We talk about the transformation that she went through, the inner transformation she went through and her mindset. How that has changed. What was she thinking that has allowed her to keep on going forward, no matter what. We talk about being humble enough to ask questions. We talk about what America is to her and how her freedom was limited in Poland and how living in America allowed her to follow her dream. 

Also, before we get going, I want to make sure that you know about two things. If you want to learn more about Joanna's story and purchase the book, you can look for the link to her website in the description of this show. And also I want you to know that, if you would rather watch us having this conversation, you can also look in the description of the show. There's a link to a YouTube video where you can see the interview itself. All right, my friends, Enjoy. Joanna Rakowski Welcome. 

Yeah, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming. I am just in awe of the book that you have written Chasing the Daylight. Fantastic book, fantastic story. Thank you, tell us a little bit about what it was like, because your story is so fascinating. 

0:03:22 - Joanna Rakowski
and, yeah, if you can just give me a brief rundown of what has been like, the story is mainly about my transformation, my personal transformation, from a polish ballerina who immigrated from poland, is trying to find herself and reinvent herself, to find herself in a new country, a new culture, a new language, and belong to the country by giving it all and not just, you know, living here and functioning but contributing actually to the society at large. So I, you know, was presented with the idea and opportunity to join the National Guard, national Guard, army National Guard, as an intelligence specialist with the linguist unit in Chicago, and I qualified and I enlisted. So that's how the journey basically starts. It's about personal transformation becoming the US Army intelligence soldier first and then becoming an officer as well. So there are several parts in the book which basically documents the story of, from the beginning of this transformation, like the decision making process, what prompted me and was the driving force to make that decision and inspiration as well driving force to make that decision and inspiration as well. But there's also a very intricate story of the actual training, how it happened, because we only see fragments of that and it's a usually Hollywood version, dramatized a little bit, but we rarely see the emotions that are going through someone's mind, especially someone who's a grownup like I was. I was already 31 when I joined, especially someone who's a grown-up like I was. I was already 31 when I joined. So you know everything. Everybody around me was, you know, in their 70s, 20s, almost like my kids. So different mindset. For me, this was not about an adventure and you know all that macho thing. It was about true personal transformation, of becoming something bigger, something more than just the tip of my nose, something important basically be part of this country. 

And the book also highlights different stages of my married life, how my relationship with my husband was progressing, what happened to it and how it was influenced basically by me being a soldier, because let's not forget that people who serve their marriages are affected by the service, no matter if they are going to war or not. The separation alone and the fact that the other half of the married couple is somewhere serving alone, away from home and completely a part of the system that they have no control of it could be very taxing on the relationship. And that person who stays home needs to be mature enough and understand what this other person is going through and why and be a supporter. So that's a very important part of being a service member. And then finally, the third part of the book is my memories of my lost relationship with my dear friend professor from University of Warsaw in the 90s, before my departure to the US, and that relationship is described also in the background. 

It revolves around its own basic story. It's the core of the friendship that is starting developing and then eventually falling apart, and that's why my book is kind of three-dimensional. It has the story of me, of my transformation in the service in the army, becoming a soldier. The second is the story of my marriage and the third is the story of my transformation in the service in the army, becoming a soldier. The second is the story of my marriage and the third is the story of my friendship. And they eventually all converge at the last moment in very unexpected kind of ways. But that was life. So that's what happened. 

0:07:22 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Can you tell me, just step by step, just a few things, because obviously some of my listeners have no idea, right? So you were born in Poland, you went to ballet school in Warsaw and then you came to the US. Can we talk, just, you know, in a few words not words, few sentences about just how the story unfolded? And then I would love to talk to you about you making a decision to belong to this country in a serious way, not like majority of us immigrants who just kind of don't think about it. You really make a good man. So I would love to touch on both of these things, but before we even get there, like if you can just give me a brief of your life, just really quick. 

0:08:04 - Joanna Rakowski
It started basically from always being drawn to the artistic professions. I was considering dancing, music or artistic gymnastics, and in Poland I was part of this during my primary school years and at some point I really wanted to be a concert master in a class of violin, and that's what I thought. I was going to be a concert master in a class of violin, and that's what I thought I was going to be. But then, you know, my mom showed me this little booklet about ballet schools and other artistic schools, and when I saw the Warsaw Ballet School, I said that's it, that's where I'm going. Screw the. You know, violin and all that. I'm going to be a ballerina. So we went the next year and I was eight years old at that time and the next year we went to the Warsaw recruiting exams and I passed the entrance exam, so I was admitted. Well, I was surprised. Guess what? Now I'm in Warsaw, basically. So I left my hometown of Kielce at that point and spent the following nine years being in ballet boarding school, learning my profession as a ballerina. And that was my dream. That's what I thought I was going to be doing. 

But times have changed in Poland. There was a big economic and artistic crisis. All throughout the country the artistic professions were basically disappearing. We had no dancers, no singers, no actors. Everybody was just fleeing the country, basically because they couldn't realize themselves in Poland due to budget cuts and the economic crisis. So since the arts were not supported anymore by the Ministry of Art and Culture, there was no point in, you know, continuing in that field, because you would basically just have no job or have a job that you go to and do nothing. So it's pretty much nonsense. 

So I decided to go change my profession a little bit, went to a university of Warsaw to study French and I studied French for five years, being translator and also the French teacher, specializing in French culture and literature as well. But in the meantime I also joined the studies of the National Music of Chopin in Warsaw and studied basically dance pedagogy with a specialty in ballet. So I was also becoming a formally certified teacher. That was also master's studies and when I finished finished, I was basically working two different professions. I was working for French companies as a marketing specialist, but also teaching ballet and all sorts of dance, like Polish folk dance, in different organizations, also in ballet school in Warsaw, teaching ballet. So I was basically involved in both of those professions and at that point, you know, I met my husband-to-be, who was visiting Poland. His grandparents were living near Warsaw and we met once. Then we met a second time a year later and got engaged, and then four months later we got married there. So it was clear from the beginning that I'm not staying in Poland. I never wanted to stay in Poland, but since he came from the US and he obviously didn't want to go to Poland either, it was a very simple decision. We are going to live in the US where he's from. So he was from where I'm living right now North Brooklyn, illinois, and there are weddings. I basically just waited a couple of months for my visa and came back here to live with my husband. 

For the first few years I was struggling with my sense of belonging. The new culture, language, everything was just so new because I was never planning on being in the US. Therefore, I never bothered to learn English. I was a French specialist and I knew a little bit of German, but never English. So that was a big challenge. But I wanted to do something of myself. I wanted to do something that I could enjoy and basically become something, and at first, I was just attending college to be a graphic designer and desktop publisher, and that's where I saw this literature about the armed forces in the US and I thought to myself you know what I could do it? I could totally do it. And then I started thinking more about it, like how would it look like if I joined the army? What do I have to offer? How can I contribute to the society who gave me so many opportunities to be something that and achieve things that I couldn't achieve in Poland? So I didn't have to think too long about this. 

0:12:21 - Ewelina Konyndyk
To be honest with you, I just wanted belong and and be part of this culture you made a decision, basically right, that you want to belong and can you, because there's additional benefits right of becoming part of the us army. Can we talk about that? I know that a lot of grants have no clue, but I'm talking specifically about education. 

0:12:44 - Joanna Rakowski
Yes, even though those benefits were not my inspiring force, because I already had higher education behind me which allowed me to join the army at a higher rank. Instead of private. I joined as a corporal, basically, but it did provide me later the opportunities I just took advantage of that. I didn't have to, but I did because it was worth it. So, yes, mainly you know like in my unit there was a lot of Polish people, there was a lot of Russian people from different countries, different languages and different stages of life, but most of them they were not born in the US but because they were qualified to be part of the linguist unit which was part of the intelligence, they had easier way and opportunities to get their citizenship through service. For a certain job you have to be basically a citizen in the intelligence, but if you qualify, then that process can be sped up because you qualify and you have something to offer to this country and the country will help you. Same thing happens later when you get out of the army or become a veteran or whatnot. 

Depending on what your benefits level is, you can get a lot of different benefits when it comes to health care insurance taxes. In Illinois, veterans are classified as 70% disabled, service-connected. They don't pay property taxes and et cetera, et cetera, and we have discounts everywhere and certain benefits and military stores and different organizations like the American Legion offers a lot of products financial products for veterans. Usaa alone it's a military-oriented organization, financial guru, banking and investment company and also insurance company that offers tremendous benefits to veterans or active duty service members. So there's a lot of that. 

0:14:35 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Yeah, I want to now touch a little bit on your inner journey, right, because obviously you are a completely different person than you were when you came. I hope so. There's no other way. 

Right, you had to be yeah yeah, you got, you gotta be something yeah, so one I think of the biggest challenges where it comes to inner growth is that we have that part of us that doesn't want to change. We have that part of us that's terrified of the change itself, because that means that we're going outside of our comfort zone and there's such a huge level of unfamiliarity in that new reality that we're creating. So I'm curious what has it been in your mindset that has allowed you to keep on going forward, no matter? 

0:15:22 - Joanna Rakowski
what? Yeah, that was, um, not an easy kind of thing to do. But once you decide which way you go, you you kind of have to stay with that you. You can't go back and doubt yourself and reinvent yourself, your ideas, because it's not gonna work. So basically, first thing that you have to realize, in a huge change like that, when you're trying to become a soldier all of a sudden, for christ's sake, you have to accept the fact that this is gonna take time. But this is not a question of a week or even two months. It's gonna take years. This is not a transformation due to the magic wand and and something amazing is gonna happen over that, overnight. 

It takes a lot of effort, physical effort, mental effort. Especially for me, not knowing English at the beginning, I was struggling tremendously and I was thinking so many times oh my gosh, what did I get myself into? When will I start finally understanding what these people are talking about around me, what all this stuff means? But you know, for each doubt, for each unknown and this scary looking big eyes in your face telling you, oh my God, this is scary, you have to kind of come up with a solution for each thing individually. So for my language issues. I basically had to create my own dictionary right down on the back of my notebook, all the terminology that I needed to desperately remember. I needed to describe in detail what this means, or whatever I needed to write down. I had to write down to find my language in this whole situation to feel more secure and better, that I am part of it After all, I'm not just a monkey, you know. Repeating stuff around I have to understand. So my brain was spinning. It was tremendous, but I had to write stuff down for months to understand what all these new terminology meant. That was number one for language. But I also had to ask people around as I gained a little more confidence and actually started having dialogues with my fellow soldiers, because at first I was just mute, I was so scared. But when I started talking to them I actually started also asking questions like what do you mean by this? Or what does this mean? Or what did you just say? Just ask, you know, because if I didn't I would be just guessing and guessing and stressing and never knew. You know what is around me. So I had to work up the courage to do that and self-discipline to note everything as far as the physical aspect of that fear and unknown and how long this is going to take for me to pass successfully physical fitness tests, because when I started, for example, I was basically subjected to so-called trial test for fitness assessment. It wasn't even a test, but it was basically an assessment. 

Before shipping to basic training, we were in the reception battalion and they asked us to do, you know, as many push-ups as we can and as many sit-ups as we can and to run, um, like I don't know half a mile. I think it was like below 12 minutes and I had never run distance on time. I had never run period. Well, a little bit when I was home before, you know, preparing for basic training, but it was like few times I run. I wasn't a practice like the kids have been in high school here, so it was a strange concept to me. So I remember this assessment. I made like one push-up maybe and seven sit-ups, one push-up, and it was probably wrong anyway. Well, yeah, but now I can't even do one. But this is how it's scary. You think there is a chart and it tells you if you are female of age 31 to pass the PT test, meaning 60% of whatever 100% is you have to do let's say, 17 or 18 push-ups and I'm thinking and I can do one, and how in the world am I going to do 17,? Right, how in the world am I going to run two miles if I can't even run half? Right? So those fears are huge. These eyes of that fear are huge, looking at you and you're thinking okay, I have to qualify by the end of this week nine or ten of basic training so I can move on with my next training, because if I can pass the fitness test, I'm not moving on, they're gonna keep me here and I'm gonna have to train extra to pass the test. So this is scary. 

And for this again, there was a different system. I had basically decided that every time I have any few seconds to spare, usually before going to bed, when everything was put away and we only basically had time to write letters home or whatnot right before going to bed I would lay down on the floor, hook my feet on the on the bunk, basically, and do push-ups and sit-ups and if weather was permitting, it was enough time. In the evening I would basically get in my fitness training clothes and run around the building pretty much blindly, because I had no idea how many miles is around the building and how many times I have to run to get even close to what I have to run to get even close to what I need to achieve. So I was basically eyeballing it and stressing about it tremendously, thinking am I running two miles already? Am I running half a mile? How many am I running and how fast am I running? I was just panicking, thinking, oh my God, I just have to keep running. It doesn't matter. Just keep running around that building and practice as much as you can and do those push-ups and do those sit-ups and you'll be okay. And that's what surgeons were helping us to do. They were like don't focus on the numbers now. Just keep exercising, just keep doing this effort and you're going to be okay at the test. At the test, your body works differently. There's more adrenaline, you are more motivated, You're going to give your best. But right now, just keep training. 

And it happened. I remember I was in shock when I suddenly was able to run two miles without stopping, because you cannot stop, but not only without stopping, but I actually made my time. I was running like 20 minutes. It was like are you kidding me? I'm running 20 minutes, two miles and I couldn't run half a mile in 12 just weeks ago. 

So that gave me hope and thinking, yes, if I just keep moving forward, whatever effort I choose, if it's intellectual effort or mental effort or physical effort I have to keep going because the results will come. You just have to be patient with yourself and with the time and with the process. And, yeah, you have to trust the process because your body will adjust and you know, eventually, in my next training, when I was already in Arizona, I had some crazy results. I was running like 18 minutes to miles, I was doing 35 pushups and I was doing 86 sit-ups in two minutes. So the human body is tremendous. And I was getting older. I wasn't getting any younger, I was literally getting older and better and better with time. So everything was possible and that's what kept me going to just kind of like focus on this moment of self-improvement, stick with your system and just just don't let yourself get distracted, basically, and that's it as I'm listening to you, there's a few things that came to my mind. 

0:23:08 - Ewelina Konyndyk
First of all, you have mentioned asking questions. Right, so ask questions. We have to be humble enough to ask questions, and that is I am seeing and I know that was also within me that at one point I had to make a decision for the same reasons, like I do not understand. I'm not gonna be pretending any longer that I understand, I'm just gonna. I don't care what people think about me, I'm gonna be asking the most basic questions if necessary. I have a right to ask a question and I have. I have noticed that in our culture it's there is the sense of pride that we have right, and so that was. It was like we're going against that pride, but at the same time it's humbling and it's absolutely necessary. So, just listening to you, I thought to myself my goodness right, how many of immigrant women hold themselves back because they are not willing to be asking questions that they're? They are themselves judging themselves. It's not like the outside world is judging. 

0:24:18 - Joanna Rakowski
Yes, you're basically cutting your own branch. You're sitting on. This is. This is really counterintuitive because you know, if you, if you think about it and you're lost, you're in survival mode. You have to reach out. You're not going to just, you know, insist that, yeah, I'm going to do it by myself and drown when you have someone you know next to you who could just give you a hand. You know that's just nonsense, but, yes, it happens that I would say false sense of pride and actually sabotaging yourself. You have to grow out of it. You have to get out of your shell, break that weird, you know, almost shame-like feeling for asking questions and just do it. 

You know, and I had to learn it the hard way because I noticed that if I'm not communicating to someone that I don't understand something, nobody's gonna guess it. They don't look directly into my head thinking does Joanna Rakowski understand what she's saying? Because she kind of looks like she understands, but does she understand what we're saying to her? No, well, they're not going to investigate that. And actually, counterintuitively, in my book there is a scene where I do create an impression that I understand everything, but I don't. And when I voice it I get punished for that, because people are like well, you understand everything, right, you can communicate everything, so we have no reason to believe you that you have a language problem. And I said, no, I do, because I do not understand everything. That's why I'm questioning certain things. And they just couldn't believe it, because they figured that if I can express myself on the basic level, they understand me. That means I understand everything too. 

But I didn't, and I had to say it and I had to fight for it and I paid the price for it. But it was worth it Because ultimately I got help that I needed, and others as well, as a result of that process. But it was heartbreaking, it was scary, it was stressful, but, um, I couldn't just sit there and and and and be ignored and people assuming that I understand everything and I don't have language problem. No, I did have a language problem and I had to say it. So it's official and it had to be addressed officially that there there are people like me. It wasn't just about me, but there was a group of people who had language problem and that became very obvious eventually when it was brought up the way it was brought up. 

0:27:02 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Yes, so, thanks to the fact that you were humble enough to admit it, others were helped as well. I would love to talk to you briefly about your relationship to America. Others were helped as well. I would love to talk to you briefly about your relationship to America Again, that subject that many of us immigrants don't. It's almost like we have two groups people who have made a decision on whom they want to be in this country and how they want to relate to this country, and people who just assume that the fact that they just don't think about it means that they don't have a relationship with america. What is america to you? What do you? 

the united states, obviously right I'm saying we know what we're talking about. Um, yeah, what? 

0:27:42 - Joanna Rakowski
is this country to you? If I had to say one word, it's. It's a chance. It's basically an opportunity that you have to see and seek and also reach for it. It's not given to you, it's not on a silver platter, it's not there, you know, at the airport platform, the moment you get off the plane. It's not there. You have to still do work, but it's like digging for gold, you know. You have to find the side, get it out, clean it up, make something of it and let it, you know, be yours or you become something else, having that jewel and that's the opportunity you have to work on it. 

Soica basically gave me, through this process that I'm describing of, you know, uh, looking for the opportunity and and finding it and using it to my advantage is basically based on the fact that I couldn't achieve certain things in poland and coming here, I didn't know if I would be able to achieve them here either, because I didn't know the country, I didn't know how America works. But very quickly I realized that I have so many more opportunities, so much more freedom to pursue what I wanted. I decided to attend college, you know, and suddenly study graphic design. Nobody really cared what my previous background was they just needed basic paperwork and I very quickly obtained a scholarship because I had very good grades in the first semester. So that wasn't something that you know was that easy in Poland. 

But here it was pretty much like want to do it, do it. And it was the first thing that was like the biggest shock for me, that there was no barriers. Basically nobody asked you like how old are you, what you've been doing, why you want to do this. It's like you want to do it, do it? Uh, pay us money. You pay money. But that's not the problem. In Poland you pay money for many things too and it's not that easy. But the thing is that I slowly started discovering it's like, yeah, I can just pursue this or pursue that and become this or that, and it's pretty much like limitless. 

And in 96, a year after I came here, I already established my first business with my husband. It was a marketing consulting firm and I was already designing newsletters for clients and staff using very basic software and just my intuition more than anything. But it was possible. It was so easy. I attempted to establish business in poland. I needed so much money to establish a corporation. It was mind-boggling. It was some 40 million złoty. At that time it was 92, so you know, I don't know how much money is it in today's money, but I was making six million back then. 

0:30:51 - Ewelina Konyndyk
That is a lot of money. 

0:30:53 - Joanna Rakowski
I think so, even for back then. Yeah, that is a lot of money. 

0:30:57 - Ewelina Konyndyk
That's crazy. 

0:30:58 - Joanna Rakowski
Yes, and they wanted to put that money in some bank so you can establish a corporation. That's limiting someone's freedom and people ask me so many times oh, what freedoms you have limited? Well, it depends what you are trying to do in Poland. If you are just sitting there working a regular full-time job and you have no other goals in your life, then yeah, your freedoms are pretty much not limited. But if you want to have a business, your freedoms are limited. If you want to pursue a PhD, your freedom is limited. If you want to have a place to live, your possibilities are limited. Because let me tell you the rates in 93, when I was already making good money, I was making 17 million złoty a month. I don't even know how much this is, but it was a lot of money back then and I tried to purchase a condo. They were building new things. There was a new thing in Poland back then that we had actually developers building new complexes and I just wanted like a little apartment, a little mieszkanie, you know, and it's like they told me that the percentage rates were like 43% and I'm going to be paying this off for the rest of my life, plus my kids and their kids Three generations. I almost fell off the chair. I am not lying. I think it was called Alice Financing something, some kind of product with a female name. I think you can still find it on the internet. That was the reality. 

So three major things education, having your business and having your place to live. Impossible for me in that country. Making good money here I come to America, I already have a place to live. I can buy a house within two years. Of course, not cash was. I wasn't trying to buy a house for cash in Poland either, I was just trying to get along. But here I could get along. Just after two years of being here, within one year I had my business. Within the same year I was already a student in a college in a complete different profession that nobody cared about, and I had a scholarship. And then I had an American job. Know where I was pretending to speak English because I couldn't speak English, but again, it didn't matter. It was good enough that I was, you know, saying those five words, maybe that I knew it was good enough. Give me that job. And I had an American job. You know, a real paycheck within, not just me, my business, my home. 

Be part of actual America, defend America and their values that they stand for. I'm not talking about going to wars and shooting people, I'm talking about the ideals and I'm an idealist. So, when the freedoms of personal freedoms are important, the values of democracy for all, equality yeah, I know for some people it sounds theoretical and, you know, idealistic, but these are really, really living here, comparing to poland, you know, yes, you really have these opportunities, you have democracy. You people are complaining, but they never lived somewhere else. I guarantee you you have the good comparison on how personal freedoms can be limited. And we know in other Middle Eastern countries it's like obviously even worse, but we have, like, tremendous opportunities here. 

And as a veteran, I went back to school and I got me another two masters and a PhD. And again, nobody asked me why PhD in this one or that. You know I just qualified, wrote the letters, got recommendation letters from other people and basically pursued my PhD, finally in a different field. But hey, who cares? You know I could do it too. So I did it, you know. And why not? That's why I, like you know, you have to become part of the system, contribute to the system. To be able to use the system properly. You have to give in order to receive. You can't be just lingering around and wondering where is this happening for me? When is this coming to me? No, you have to work on it. You have to create those opportunities. But once you do you, you will. You will have everything, everything that you need. Yeah, that's what America. For me, it's a dream, my own American dream. 

0:35:50 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Yeah, and it's you know. You're such an inspiration. I hope that other immigrant women that are listening to us will be inspired by your story like I was, and you know we'll make sure that they have a link to purchase the book and they can read more about your story and find out the details. 

But there's one more thing that came to my mind that I would love to touch on. It's one less little thing your story and my story. It differs a little bit, because when I came to the US, I was surrounded by Americans, and so I was just forced to learn American English. I knew British English before I came, but then I was like there's no one that I could speak Polish with, as much as I struggled. It forced me to really learn this language. Yes, but my question to you is because you came with a Polish speaker, right, your husband spoke Polish, and then you landed here surrounded by Polish community, but then eventually, you had to make a decision to walk away from Polish language. Yes, yes, can you? Can you talk about that a little bit? What was that like? And, um, what was that process like? 

0:37:05 - Joanna Rakowski
yeah, the main thing is my husband was American born, polish provenance person, but his Polish was very basic, so it wasn't really that straightforward communicating with him in polish because, you know, uh, maybe talking about weather and and a couple of you know, maybe going to a bar and have a beer, but other than that it was just difficult to communicate. So that was number one motivation to switch to english immediately. But I just couldn't because it doesn't work that way. So it was kind of fun like he was teasing me all the time. At the beginning was like every day he was asking me can you speak english? Yet can you speak english? It's like, you know, he was expecting this to become like a thing over a time, overnight, and and that like one day he's going to wake up and I'm going to speak English. And I always would tease him back saying you know, one day I'm going to speak English. So well, you're going to regret that I speak English. And it actually happened, because he could never later win an argument with me in English was like, oh my gosh, I wish you could speak English. But you know, at some point once I crossed that barrier of insecurity and inability to just let go. I was unstoppable. It didn't matter to me if I had an accent or not. 

But going back to Polish community, yes, I came to his family. My family was never here, so my only relatives was his relatives and obviously they were Polish. So we only practically spoke Polish and I started feeling that I'm sinking. I'm feeling debilitated, like a disabled, basically, person, and not being able to communicate with the American-speaking environment was not helpful and I didn't want to be that person who counts on others constantly for anything, asking what do they say? What is this person asking me, or? I don't want to be that person. I never was that person. 

When I was learning French, I was struggling learning French because I was learning it in Poland, so I was never really in the natural French-speaking environment. But even though I was basically doing my best to use French and struggling with it, being scared and not being able to express myself for the longest time which is also in the book. But then it happened again in America. But here I had a choice. I had a choice to basically do separate myself from the Polish community and don't count on them constantly for everything for a job, for a bank, for a post office, for this for that Just learn the actual, genuine language that is used here and it's going to be just once. You do it, once you learn it once and then you just practice it. So it stops being a struggle eventually, stops being a struggle eventually. 

And I gave myself six months at the beginning to start pretending to speak English because I knew I'm not gonna just start speaking, I just didn't know enough words. But to pretend, basically like play the game and don't let people know first thing you meet them say, oh, I don't speak English, no, speak English, I don't want to be that person, so I'm just gonna engage in dialogue like nothing happens and just listen, say yes, you know, smile and see what happens. If I can carry a conversation like that for a few seconds, that means I can pretend to speak English and eventually, by the time someone realizes that I actually don't speak English, I can pretend for a while and actually feel good about it, thinking that, hey, this is how it feels to speak English or understand English without telling someone that you actually don't. 

So it's like cheating yourself, but cheating others as well. Well, and I was playing that game for months, obviously because I had also no choice. I was working for American company. People were talking to me, and how helpful would it be to say to customers I don't speak English, what, what are they gonna do about it? They're not gonna put any words in my head and switch the switch and say, okay, now you do speak English. No, so what's the point? Right, it's better to just engage in dialogue and say yes and smile, because what is the worst thing they're gonna want from you? They're not gonna ask you to kill someone and you answering them, yes, of course, right, that's not gonna happen. But they're gonna ask you for something, like can you help me with something? Or where is this one, where is that one? And if you say yes and they realize like, okay, this person doesn't speak English, it's okay, they're just going to move on and ask someone else, but nobody's going to ostracize you and judge and say, how can this person be here that can't speak English? Because this happens all the time. 

Everywhere in America you have people who just kind of speak and people who kind of don't speak, but they're still there and they still could be helpful, but they're learning. You have to give them a chance, especially at the beginning. Kind of get through this cheating process of immersing yourself. This is immersing yourself in the culture without using that crutch of saying I don't speak english. Well, yeah, you don't speak english, so what? Well, work on it and you will speak english. And that's the only only solution here, because I know too many people from polish environment here that are using this all their lives and saying I don't speak English, can I speak to someone who speaks Polish? You know, on the phone, with the bank, with the hospital, the post office, and, yes, you will find translators pretty much everywhere. 

But why I mean this is, you know, to be counterintuitive. If you live here, you have to speak the language. You have to know their systems and their processes and the rules and regulations. You have to be able to read that and maybe not be an expert, but at least on the basic level. You know what the taxes are about, what's the percentage in your state, you know how the law works, you know's what's allowed, what's not, and you know basic stuff that you should be able to understand if you make some effort. But asking your english-speaking friends constantly to translate your personal correspondence and your bills from insurance, from hospitals. It's just. It's just a burden. It's embarrassing to kind of have to do it for someone who has been here for 40 years and didn't bother to learn the basic stuff. 

0:44:00 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Yeah, and I'm thinking To manage their own life. 

That's it, and I'm thinking that, yes, it is easier not to learn it, it is easier to, from time to time, ask for help, but the price that they are paying right? Yes, but the price that they are paying right is so heavy because you're surrounded by people who have made an effort and have proven to themselves that it can be done and that every time that you are not taking that on, you're proving to yourself that somehow, someway, you're not equal. Yes, in your intelligence, and you are yes, and you're devaluing yourself. 

0:44:38 - Joanna Rakowski
You're devaluing yourself. 

0:44:41 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Well, this has been so good. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. 

0:44:47 - Joanna Rakowski
Oh, thank you, it's my pleasure. 

0:44:51 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Yeah, you really are such an inspiration. I have been reading your book. It's been so so, so good. It is not a thin book, you guys, it's pretty thick, so this is why I haven't finished it, but it is so good. We'll make sure to link, thank you, yeah, we'll. We'll make sure to link everything so that, um, our fellow immigrant women and men can read your story and be inspired by it. It truly is such a um story of, with so many different levels of transformation. I just kept on reading and writing questions that I I love when people do it. 

0:45:24 - Joanna Rakowski
They do it all the time. They ask questions like how did you this, how did you deal with that, what happened there and what happened that? It was like. This is good because I wanted to have people some mental discoveries and questioning things and wonder about things, because this is a personal story. 

Obviously this is about personal transformation, but those transformations are pretty much. You know, all of us at some point will face some kind of decision about self-transformation or reinvention or things like that, and you know it's in this. In this sense, this book is quite universal because when you read about this, you can imagine yourself in a similar situation, not maybe being in the army, but facing something else, like different kinds of choices, and thinking what would Joanna do in my position or things like that. You know and and you think you know based on what you read you know she would do this. Maybe I can do that and kind of figure things out and help digest all this. You know stuff that is going on in your head when you're in the crossroads, when you have to do something with your life. 

0:46:34 - Ewelina Konyndyk
But absolutely this is meant to be questioning certain things about life and decision making and who you become eventually, and how and why beautiful work, really beautiful work, and what comes to my mind it has been like I've been like okay, if she can do it, I can do it that's the main thing. 

0:46:52 - Joanna Rakowski
Yes, yes, absolutely so. 

0:46:55 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Thank you again. I am just so, so glad you've shared your journey this way, because that's another thing. There's so many beautiful immigrant stories that are not written about yes, yes, not written about. So the fact that you have given us this gift of your uh transformation is. I really am very grateful for it because, like I said, it's gonna inspire a lot of people thank you. 

0:47:17 - Joanna Rakowski
I'm very moved but you know that just gives me hope that the book is achieving what my goal was to basically make people feel better about certain things they're going through in life and and get that inspiration and think like if joanna did it at the age of 31, I can do this and that at the age of 45 or whatnot, whatever that might be. But it's possible because it's all about those universal values, like what you believe in, what you give from yourself and how do you work on your dreams and how do you fight for them, and how do you fight for them and how do you believe in their beauty. Because that's what you know. Leonard Roosevelt was saying that the future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams, and that's it. She doesn't talk about degrees, how old you are, how fat you are, if you're green or brown. The beauty of your dreams is the only important thing to lead you to your future. 

Beautifully sad that was not me, that was her yeah she's just amazing. Yes, I have it written down somewhere in my room and always look at him like you better. Believe, woman, you, what you just said. It just couldn't be more true and I thank you for that. Yeah excellent. 

0:48:40 - Ewelina Konyndyk
Thank you so much for coming thank you so much, evelina. 

0:48:43 - Joanna Rakowski
It was a pleasure. 

0:48:43 - Ewelina Konyndyk
You're a wonderful person, thank you friends, I hope you enjoyed listening to our conversation. Again, if you would want to learn more about Joanna and if you would like to purchase her book, look for the link to her website in the description of this show. And this is especially for those of you who feel like this immigrant journey is hard. It's hard for you. You feel alienated, you feel like no one understands you and no one really gets your struggles, what you're dealing with. I really recommend this book to you Because when we see other seemingly ordinary people do big things, we get closer to the possibility of overcoming our struggles. And when we reflect on the stories like the one Joanna shares, we get closer to our own potential right, because things are grounded in this reality and we get to see our dream and her dream. So I strongly recommend get this book, read it and be ready to get inspired. All right, my wonderful friends, have a great day. I will talk to you next time. Bye.